Curse

clonmac · Sep 26, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

With just about everyone and their mothers using Punishing shot Ranger builds with Kindle arrow, I've been trying to think of a good general way to counter them. Getting interrupted really isn't my problem. I can still get my spells off.

But, I think it is really stupid that if you dodge/block/evade their arrows, then I don't think kindle arrow should still hit. I would understand why ignite arrows might still hit, because it is splash damage. That is why ignite does less damage. But I think, that if you dodged the arrow, then kindle arrow should not still do the damage. Even if you are running around in the distance dodging their arrows, Kindle arrow still hits. It is very unbalanced if you ask me.

I built a Punishing/savage/distracting shot Kindle Arrow ranger and ran it in PvP and it is way too powerful. I am never one to ask for a nerf. I am the last person to really to so (this line I am sure will be quoted at some point below, LOL).

All I ask is that kindle arrow become 'dodgeable'. This would make those ranger builds at least have some sort of counter. I put Spirit Shackles on them, Spirit of Failure, blind, it don't stop them because it only costs about 4 energy to get those shots off. Blinded? Who cares! Kindle arrow will still get them!! Some of them even throw Conjure Flame on top of that, so basically they do 30+ damage each hit, regardless whether their arrows actually hit the target or not.

All I ask is that Kindle Arrow can actually miss sometimes. You can have all your other Ranger fun. I don't mind the interrupts or clean direct hits.

I am prepared for the Punishing Shot Fanboy flames...

Valerius · Sep 26, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

umm....

Kindle Arrows doesn't do splash dmg... so if the arrow misses... u shouldn't be taking dmg...

NatalieD · Sep 26, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerius

umm....

Kindle Arrows doesn't do splash dmg... so if the arrow misses... u shouldn't be taking dmg...

Whether or not you should be taking the damage, the fact is that you do.

Goonter · Sep 26, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I could agree with this.
Ive been using Kindle for a long time, but if they put a stop to it, I wouldnt be upset.
Kindle and conjures do "seem" as if they should be evadable.

Ignite and Choking Gas are the only ones that I would say shoot trough evades and blinds, because they are AoEs.

dargon · Sep 26, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

I play a ranger and I agree with this. Kindle should not act as localized splash dmg. if you dodge the burning arrow, you should dodge the kindle effect.

clonmac · Sep 26, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Well it is good to see people in agreement with this. It just seems logical really. Thanks.

...hopefully Anet will see it that way

David Lionmaster · Sep 26, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

well, if kindle arrows hitting even though you dodged it doesnt make sense, then i think that if your blinded you should have a hard time casting spells affecting other people, because how do you know where to aim your spell if you cant see?

seriously, its so easy to dodge an arrow, by sidesteping, going behind a wall, or by skills, why do you want to make it even harder for us rangers to hit with an attack?

dargon · Sep 26, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

While I kinda agree on the spell thing, it can be summed up with this explaination. Crappy though it is, spells are magical, the magic aims them for you.

clonmac · Sep 27, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Spells aren't aimed...Do you see Elementalists aiming down the sights of their staff when they cast?

haha, OK, jokes aside. Do you really have a problem aiming with your ranger? Unless the enemy is running an enchantment/stance to dodge or I am blind, then I rarely miss due to an inaccurate shot or obstacle. Throw cripple on your target to slow them down if you find them running away. But to make kindle arrow not miss regardless of how far off your arrow actually was is pretty rediculess.

If you want the splash damage, trade out for Ignite Arrow.

Makkert · Sep 27, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

yes, this is weird.
I wondered also about this...the only thing I could imagine, is that Kindled arrows 'explode' (skilldescription not accurate). So when blocking , it explodes in your blocking hands. or something like that..Likewise evading: explosion to close...

But I agree this feels somehow wrong. But please don't nerf my ranger

clonmac · Sep 27, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I think the main reason for it to be changed is so that Ignite Arrows would be come more useful. At the moment, there really isn't any reason to use Ignite Arrows (in PvP that is) over Kindle. I think if they made Kindle evadable, then Ignite might serve a better purpose.

RTSFirebat · Sep 27, 2005, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmac

I think the main reason for it to be changed is so that Ignite Arrows would be come more useful. At the moment, there really isn't any reason to use Ignite Arrows (in PvP that is) over Kindle. I think if they made Kindle evadable, then Ignite might serve a better purpose.

Well Ignite arrows do damage to more then one target, where kinder will only hurt the person it hits. So Ignite does have a purpose, only thing is kinder arrows does more damage to a single target making it more ideal for damage dealing with focus fire.

Now while I agree if you block a kinder you shouldn't take full damage, but since the arrow explodes when you block is, I think you should take 1/3 of the damage it would have done?

I think that seems a bit more fair... you most you end up with is about 8 damage per shot or less.

mortalis doleo · Sep 27, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

but with conjure flame, it can reach 20 damage, for amn attack that should never have hit you...

RTSFirebat · Sep 27, 2005, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

but with conjure flame, it can reach 20 damage, for amn attack that should never have hit you...

Conjure Flame gives a damage bonus to any fire based WEAPON, not spells. So when a arrow is blocked or evaded conjure flame doesn't do anything at all, Kinder still hits however.

I seen this myself, conjure flame misses with the arrow, but Kinder hits with full damage, which as everyone has said shouldn't happen, since the arrow was blocked or evaded.

But like I said since its a flaming arrow it should do a minor amount of damage, maybe a 1/3 of what it could do.

Conjure flame doesn't make kinder more powerful, however they do go well together if you using a Flame based Bow.

I for example use a Fiery Bow +15% enchant damage, with 8 extra flame damage from Conjure and 20 extra from Kinder.

So I see 3 damages added together:

Normal Arrow Damage + Kinder + Conjure Flame

As you guess when its misses I get:

0 + kinder + 0

And when not enchanted with Conjure flame I get:

Damage + Kinder

clonmac · Sep 27, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Here is my reasoning why Kindle Arrow SHOULD be blockable.

***At the moment there is NO counter for it what so ever!!!!!!!!***

For a game that likes to have a counter for everything, I am very surprised. But Kindle Arrow is a preparation. Preparations can't be removed. Therefore they NEED to be dodgable in order for the game to have balance!!!

RTSFirebat · Sep 27, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmac

Here is my reasoning why Kindle Arrow SHOULD be blockable.

***At the moment there is NO counter for it what so ever!!!!!!!!***

For a game that likes to have a counter for everything, I am very surprised. But Kindle Arrow is a preparation. Preparations can't be removed. Therefore they NEED to be dodgable in order for the game to have balance!!!

No need for CAPS LOCK you know, doeasn't make you point any more important.

Well what about if I fire Called Shot at you? Which cannot be blocked or evaded.

Also Hunter's Shot (Bleeding) and posion arrow can be blocked as well. Apply posion is a preparation that can be blocked, so your not 100% correct.

But I do see you point, so like I said if the damage you get by blocking fire arrows is greatly reduced to 5 damage or below I think it be fine.

clonmac I do agree with you, not disagreeing, I just think total blocking would make taking down warriors and their stances near impossible. Since Called shot is costly and has a recharge time making it a bit hard to make use of.

fires Scape · Sep 27, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

If you block a projectile that is on fire it's still going to hurt. Same thing with Kindle Arrows. Altough i don't think it should do extra damage if the attack is evaded.

RTSFirebat · Sep 27, 2005, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fires Scape

If you block a projectile that is on fire it's still going to hurt. Same thing with Kindle Arrows. Altough i don't think it should do extra damage if the attack is evaded.

Yes, if you block is does greatly reduced damage, if you evade it shouldn't do anything at all.

Urda · Sep 27, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmac

Here is my reasoning why Kindle Arrow SHOULD be blockable.

***At the moment there is NO counter for it what so ever!!!!!!!!***

For a game that likes to have a counter for everything, I am very surprised. But Kindle Arrow is a preparation. Preparations can't be removed. Therefore they NEED to be dodgable in order for the game to have balance!!!

Shielding Hands IS a counter...or curse them with Spitefull Spirit
or interrupt the prep... 2 seconds is damn long. Use leech signet.. Cry of frustration... whatever non-spell interrupt works best for you.

its ok like it is, also i agree it seems not logical. I say : Keep it the way it is.

btw : there are other skills with no counter and some are way more scary than 20 damage... :
Blackout... Touch of Agony... Vampiric Touch...Shock..
Basicly all "touch"-Attack stuff (ignores most interrupts + Backfire + uberfast "activation").

Will you all nerv them ?

Timoz · Sep 27, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I can see how this would be logical, although people would trade for ignite so... doesnt make so much of a difference you'd just increase the spread damage. (personally prefer ignite anyways)

Kindle only has the ability to affect one target, in principle and according to its description, it shouldn't hit unless the arrow does... thats the point of there being a difference between ignite and kindle, or at least more of a noticable difference as it should be....
so.. yeh in all i agree